Australia
2372 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  17:49:30

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warning-- Im testing you all-- so if you miss replying you get a fail and not be included on my bright spark list.

Lest I be chastised for impiety I stand
with eyes lowered, Malice expects 
the river bed to be known for dreaming 

the coming wet. Where no wash or foam
or rocks full of grit try the prentice

who will till the verbal plot—-a sin for which she 
is sure to go to hell, and supplicate. The marble

is rock, "I'm harder than before"
you say in settling; and finding level ground--
become a calloused carbuncle in depiction.

Painting—here 

http://www.kenney-mencher.com/catalog/reference_desk.jpg

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  18:35:08

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Aunty, 

I enjoyed this poem, and think it works well with the painting. Some thoughts:

I think there's a better way to lead into this . The first line just sounds like something a bad poet would write. Just a feeling I have.

I assume that Malice in L2 should not be capped and that the comma should be a period. 

Like the strophe break between S1 and S2. Makes dreaming a pretty nice word choice acutally. 

Do you want to repeat rocks twice here. That's something I always ask because I'm not sure if the repetition helps here, especially since you take some much time with the rock later in the write. 

Verbal plot seems like an abstract phrase. 

Can you phrase S3L2 a bit more succinctly. At least before supplicate. It seems just a bit overly wordy.

I wouldn't use the semicolon where you do. I think a comma would be fine or even a period, but the semicolon is incorrect.

Hope these thoughts help

-Sisyphus-

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  18:35:10

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[accidental double post]

Edited by - sisyphus082 on 07/14/2004 18:36:40

416 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  19:22:46

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love the painting. got a neo-hopper feel that appeals. and a subject matter i can relate to. i always wear red at the reference desk. thigh-highs are da bomb. ooooh-la-la-sasson!

bright spark me, lady. 

429 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  20:04:19

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I like the poem, Auntie...particularly "who will till the verbal plot"...and actually like the painting for what it captures but like lots of poems it is seriously flawed...the hands are done fairly well but he needs to work big time on knees (not easy)...no wonder SF women got it censored; they know legs don't bend that way... and his perspective is way off in that one, too ( not necessarily in his other work, tho)...still I like the painting and agree it is somewhat Hopper-like. Would not pay a bunch for it tho.

Pat

Edited by - Pat Jones on 07/14/2004 20:13:03

Edited by - Pat Jones on 07/14/2004 20:13:58

USA
252 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  20:37:03

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hell we are being tested, this ought to be fun. My thoughts below, T

Lest I be chastised for impiety I stand
with eyes lowered, Malice expects a river bed 
to be known for dreaming 

the coming wet. Where no wash or foam
or rocks full of grit try the prentice

who will till the verbal plot—-a sin for which she 
is sure to go to hell, and supplicate. Marble

is rock, "I'm harder than before"
you say in settling; and finding level ground--
become a calloused carbuncle in depiction.

the marble break is my favorite, did you ever get your poor statue fixed?
 

429 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  20:45:54

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what the hell...if it's a test, I'd like to see it read:

...is rock, "I'm harder than before"
you say in settling; and finding level ground--
become as calloused in depiction.
 

Pat
 

Australia
2372 Posts

quote:

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Aunty, 

I enjoyed this poem, and think it works well with the painting. Some thoughts:

I think there's a better way to lead into this . The first line just sounds like something a bad poet would write. Just a feeling I have.
slap bang wallop-- oh boy i felt that one

I assume that Malice in L2 should not be capped and that the comma should be a period. 

Like the strophe break between S1 and S2. Makes dreaming a pretty nice word choice acutally. yes --thanks 

Do you want to repeat rocks twice here. That's something I always ask because I'm not sure if the repetition helps here, especially since you take some much time with the rock later in the write. 

yes, and no I fell into the same trap I hate seeing in other works-- I wan marble like rock in the hardness but marble to me is always a demigem cast in a moment of time it's flaws exposed and admired, and it is soft to sculpt and so lacks the rigid ness of rocks ¡V I'm waffling here!! Lucky I know what I'm onaboutƒº 

Verbal plot seems like an abstract phrase. 

hmm think of a field a plow and a seed crop

Can you phrase S3L2 a bit more succinctly. At least before supplicate. It seems just a bit overly wordy.

I will try 

I wouldn't use the semicolon where you do. I think a comma would be fine or even a period, but the semicolon is incorrect.

Hope these thoughts help yes I will fix and yes it all helped 

mark yourself plugged in :)

-Sisyphus-
 

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Australia
2372 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2004 :  22:41:21

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James here-- http://www.kenney-mencher.com/

Pat-- I’m with you-- hate the brush work But can see the explicitness in his intentions

http://www.kenney-mencher.com/catalog/judges_chambers16x20.jpg - look at the legs and the bum-- which is a metaphor in paint- his women are all men in some respect, I think he has poofters on the brain-- no offence but this one is so odd.{ the judge] He has to judge what this prick in front of him is—and he has turned himself off- this one painting speaks so loudly—but hanging in my house! No bloody way—

TEB—Marble –yes one of the few words that sounds the picture it makes -- 

no It’s just sitting. All its bits in a heap at its feet—poor little thing—thanks all -- 
 

Edited by - aunty on 07/14/2004 22:42:35

717 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  04:10:16

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Aunty - that painting needs a blurb, not a poem; it looks like the cover of a vintage paperback (Lust in the Library). I checked out the link to the artist’s other work, and I found more “paperback paintings”. 

I like the free voice in the last stanza of your poem. In contrast, the opening stanza sounds fussy & formal, like it’s clad in Victorian clothes. Unbutton it and free it. (:
 

Edited by - Isobel on 07/15/2004 04:17:03

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  06:58:43

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So whaddya want? Feedback on the poem or the artwork? I'll start with the artwork. It's great! The colors are fantastic, but the paint technique looks like one of those paint-by-numbers. The woman is comical: love the way she holds her hair, seductive move, going in for the kill. Her ploy: "Look I've got a run in my stockings." But those are one ugly pair of legs - they look like men's legs - what's with the muscles? And the shoes have gotta go. I'm betting she bought them in Paris--you know those Parisiennes, always style over function and the worst fitting shoes possible. The wedged toes look like they hurt. The guy looks goofy. Even taking into account the perspective, his feet look much smaller than hers. 

Well...that was fun. Your poem, Aunty, is good. I would put a period after "lowered".

Mia

416 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  07:55:22

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the more i look at his paintings, the more convinced i am that he's revising hopper, or at least updating the hopper catalog. hopper is probably my favorite modern painter (i also like hockney a whole lot), so this guy mencher is doing something awfully right--in my book. this is what good art does, brings new subjects to the same old strokes, or old subjects new strokes. and aunty, i think if you look over some more of mencher's work, you'll see that not all the women have the same sort of manly characteristics that you've observed. 

incidentally, hopper's women were usually variations on his wife--if not his actual wife--and she, like mencher's women, has very strong physical characteristics, sometimes very attractive in a feminine manner--other times more masculine, particular the expressions on her face and the attitude of her body. 

as for the "censorship," i could care less, really. i mean, apparently--or so i'm assuming--i would have never even seen this guy's work if aunty hadn't noticed that it had been "censored." but really, if something is making you uncomfortable at work, you do have the right to complain and have something done about it, especially when it comes to something as subjective as art work (i'd probably just resign without complaint, and, in fact, the whole abstract expressionist movement was designed to produce non-threatening art that could be placed anywhere, especially office buildings and schools). frankly, i think mencher's lucky, in this day and age, to have his art work shown anywhere. in an office building, that's prime real estate. he should be proud to have what's been kept to show. as for the san francisco gallery, selection is not censorhip, especially when you're trying not just to show, but to sell as well.

lastly, mencher's comments about us bringing our own interpretations to his work, sure, yea, no duh, but he brings much of the context to stimulate or reinforce what we're going to see and potentially discuss. to say that the artwork goes out there without what the artist put on the canvas is artistic bullshit (quite similar to the idolistic bullshit i mentioned a week or so ago. however, instead of a critic going to extraordinary lengths to praise the work of a particularly artist, now we're faced with the artist nuzzling up to the protective silence of a highly suspect and out-of-context qoute).

Edited by - James on 07/15/2004 08:14:00

717 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  09:07:57

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I know what you're saying, James. But I think there's a quietude in Hopper's work and an isolation surrounding his people, which I don't see in Mencher's art. I really think Mencher was more inspired by old paperbacks. 

http://www.kenney-mencher.com/catalog/reference_desk.jpg

http://www.pulpcards.com/largeimg/pc-006.jpg
 

Edited by - Isobel on 07/17/2004 06:57:26

Edited by - Isobel on 07/17/2004 06:58:44

416 Posts

717 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  10:33:42

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Well, I'm half teasing, James. I don't think Mencher had that exact paperback in mind, and I don't even think the paperback scene depicts a library. ;-)

But I meant what I said about seeing a resemblance to vintage paperback art - that impression is based on the composition of the five or so paintings I've seen by Mencher. I confess: I don't think Mencher is a good artist. I don't mind that he chooses the same themes as paperback artists; what bothers me is that the presentation is as poor and cheap as those artists'. I can't see much difference in the quality of the work.

416 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  11:21:07

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mencher's quality is there, lest i wouldn't be comparing him to hopper. take reference desk, for instance, and its social commentary about the information age, how sexy and commodified information has become, hence the distortion of the woman's knee and the somewhat bewildered, slightly anxious jimmy stewart-like hat-holding gentleman from a place long since gone. it's a throwback scene that comments on the present age. a very interesting tactic and potential that isn't necessarily present in his other works, at least the ones i've quickly perused on his site. to me, the social commentary, along with the hopper-like quality of the paintings, spells post-modern quality. 

however, i would say that his more overtly sexualized works derive from an attempt to illustrate and perhaps, explain and normalize, sexual areas that may be unfamiliar to the masses in ways that are neither erotic or pornographic, but forces us in both of those directions. sexual situations that just are. they have no apparent reason or resolution, and usually voyeuristic in some fashion. again, that's post-modern quality. 

the woman about to smash the camera is another entirely interesting painting. again, the voyeur behind her, sneaking in while she's about to commit a brutal act to piece of modern machinery, signalling her disgust for the so-called more truthful representations often attributed photographic image that has come to dominate culture, perhaps displacing artists like mencher. the world isn't illustrated anymore, we only have images of it. to me, the painting is a kind of post-modern lament. if i had the bucks, i'd buy some of this guy's stuff, particularly the woman smashing the camera and the reference desk. who knows, give him a few more years and maybe he'll strike a deal with target. then i'll be able to afford him.

717 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  11:28:18

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I get a kick out of this, so I can't help posting one more: 

http://www.kenney-mencher.com/catalog/judges_chambers16x20.jpg

http://pulpcards.com/largeimg/pc-306.jpg

Edited by - Isobel on 07/17/2004 06:59:44

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  11:28:29

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Ah, we're down to the discussion of "art or crap". I'd say art and damn good art, too. If the execution in question is flawed, that's one thing, but you'd have to convince me why this looks cheap. Perhaps because of the tawdry subject matter, but then again, it's so Americana. But that's not what appeals to me: This painting invites a story, it's all there. 

The one that looks like a paperback cover is this one:

Even though it looks "cheap" at first glance, the message is interesting.

Mia

416 Posts

717 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  12:08:33

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They all look like paperbacks to me. Mencher's painting style is just as remindful of paperback art as his figural compositions. In some ways I even think the paperbacks are better, considering that the bodily proportions and the perspective in that art are more correct.

But I love reading your comments, James. Mencher NEEDS you as his critic. In fact he needs you as his agent -- I think you could help sell his work with your interesting and insightful analyses. (:

Paperback art varies in style, BTW, and changes with the times. The older "sleaze" is better. Here's the only cover I really love. Ain't she sweet. (:

http://www.pulpcards.com/largeimg/pc-xxxblondebaggage.jpg
 

Edited by - Isobel on 07/17/2004 07:00:36

416 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  14:33:53

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isobel, i could probably bullshit as much regarding the blonde baggage cover art. it would be different bullshit though. and that's my point now. in mencher you see paperback covers (art), i see a continuation of hopper (also art). and in the post-modern world, there's no disagreement, only different points of view--many of them deadly. 

we agree that mencher's work is art because it reminds of us art. discussions of quality, like religion, are basically irrelevant once we've established our points of view.

717 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  16:56:11

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I'm a big tease, but I wasn't kidding when I said your analyses were insightful. Unlike bad fiction or poetry, "bad" art can actually become interesting with an enlightening interpretation. And you're right, of course - my opinion that it's "bad" is a matter of personal taste; a discussion of quality is more or less irrelevant once we've established our points of view.

For me, there's only one question that is relevant. Would I rather be attacked by an evil Scooby, or an evil rose? ;-)

http://www.kenney-mencher.com/catalog/scooby_snack_10x16.jpg

http://pulpcards.com/largeimg/pc-003.jpg
 

Edited by - Isobel on 07/17/2004 07:01:18

Australia
2372 Posts

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  17:37:16

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Yeah, but Aunty, did you notice that the reflection of the couple isn't the same couple? The art is interesting. Did you get a look at Varsity? Here's the link, I won't put the image here:

http://www.kenney-mencher.com/catalog/varsity16x20.jpg

Look at the double shadows - it's all wrong. The guy doesn't have two wankers. Either it's a real goof, or it's deliberate. But, stop! Don't throw out this poem. I meant it, it's good.

Mia

Australia
2372 Posts

Australia
2372 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  17:47:29

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I think they were to represent his lost balls Mia—but to be honest 

I fell apart laughing at that one -- he has the expression of 

“who the hell put that there” 

I've see terry look the same way when he stood in dog poo in the yard—

this could be one of his ugly wimen on a bad hat day—lol PS 
 

wingfoot will be displeased when he sees the wings on this baby eh! 

back to the reflections-- I think he is trying for the older looking back as how they were when young-- but the age gap is too close- which dosen't let him off the hook for his line work being out-- 
 

Edited by - aunty on 07/15/2004 17:51:29

Edited by - aunty on 07/15/2004 17:58:25

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  17:52:41

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Since you keep pointing out the hands which bug you, Aunty, Rodin was famous for sculpting large hands, very much out of proportion. Study his "The Burghers of Calais". They were symbolic for Rodin and for Frida Kahlo, as well. 

www.theartcanvas.com/kahlo.self26.htm" target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/20010618092630/www.theartcanvas.com/kahlo.self26.htm

As for Mencher, my favorite one is "After the Game." That one cracks me up every time.

Mia
 

Australia
2372 Posts

Australia
2372 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  18:05:53

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hey! thats mine too-- I forgot the title-- 

love the look on her face lol

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  18:10:23

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Here's the link to "After the Game" for the rest of those who want to be in the know:

http://www.kenney-mencher.com/catalog/after_the_game24x36.jpg

I think Mencher has something, exploiting our sexuality. Right in your face kind of art. I love it!

Mia

717 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  18:24:43

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Aunty - I don't know what's scarier: the evil rose, or Mia's pic with the nutty nude dude. I'm bound to have nightmares tonight. (:

http://pulpcards.com/

Mia's right about your poem, btw. It's not bad at all, and I think the last stanza is very good. (:
 
 
 

USA
1755 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  18:24:53

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Ooh, don't 86 this one, Aunty, it's pretty cool, just needs little changes. I love interps of paintings and like what and how the poem is saying about this one. Agree w/Isobel, think it's the work 'lest', tho it does sound like 'lust'--the era (Victorian) it evokes seems off from the painting's. Also agree with the punctuation tweaks Sisy, Pat, others suggest. As for the 'verbal plots', the reader gets the meaning, but also wonder, like Sisy, if it couldn't be improved on, made less abstract. Hard to say. I'm guessing here, but feel you may have intended an idea along nature of 'verbal titillations' vs 'visual titillations'??, but if I'm off the mark...well.

Hmmm, so interesting that you and some others feel Mencher's women are manly looking. I don't see that, so much, myself. They appear boldly drawn, aggressively stroked, but not masculine overall--weeeell, the one's facial expression, the dark haired ruddy cheeked and nosed figure may look a little masculine, now that it's mentioned, but I doubt I'd have come away with it on my own.

I see strains of Hopper. Yes. A great discussion!

Albs

Sans Sig. Signed, Sigless

429 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  20:16:18

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This thread intrigues me...if a poet posted work whose "execution" many deemed was poor but whose words may or may not tell a story, they'd get creamed here. An artist whose art may (or for some may not) conjure a story but whose drawing ability is seriously flawed is forgiven because as he says, "I work in heavy impasto and heavy innuendo". Give me a break. That does not make him a good artist. That's like saying to a poet forget the study of the craft, the hard stuff...it's okay if you don't know how to spell, your grammar is off...you are gifted, have a story to tell...don't worry about the mechanics of writing.

I do not believe his errors are intentional because they lend nothing to his work.

Pat

I like the poem, tho, Aunty...don't ditch it...it's far better executed than the art. IMHO.
 

Edited by - Pat Jones on 07/15/2004 20:18:42

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  20:42:06

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Pat, it's almost next to impossible to compare the act of writing to art. They are completely two different genres. Writing? Honestly is an elitist type of art because it requires thinking, and engages a different part of the brain; whereas, art is as you know highly subjective. I don't particularly think Frida Kahlos paintings are that good if I were to judge them strictly on craft: composition, design, perspective - often her colors are muddied. Her subject matter, however, is a different story. I also don't think much of Mark Rothko's work. Art/painting/sculpting is much more fickle. 

Why does Mencher appeal to me? For the same reason Vargas appeals to others, and apparently for the same reason Hopper appeals to many, myself included. 

But writing, on the other hand, is something any literate person can do by simply picking up a pen, or using a keyboard - it is often the lazy man's art. And since anyone can write, the criteria has to be different: e.g., attention to grammar, punctuation, style...etc. The competition is increasingly stringent to produce a better craft than the next writer. If we as readers can come to a consensus that the writing sucks, then we have judged the writing as such. Most of the time, I overlook the punctuation, grammar, the technical stuff if the core of the poem has something to say because the technical stuff can be ironed out. But I'm probably one of the few who believes in content over form. There are exquisite poems that are written well from the grammatical point, but how something is said and what's being said is lacking. 

Mia

429 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  20:52:35

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Writing? Honestly is an elitist type of art because it requires thinking

Oh, I see...and the other arts don't?

How typical of me to have missed that. Rothko happens to be a favorite of mine so it appears we must agree to disagree. Again. : )

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  20:55:33

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:-) Agree.

Rothko is a rip off. But yes, I do mean that writing is a kind of elitist art, philosophically, experientially speaking because it is so much more demanding. Painting, sculpting, is a kind of "feel" your way through the eyes. The eye "knows" if something is off. 

Mia

429 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  21:18:54

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Beyond me how anyone could see Rothko's paintings,...see the Rothko Chapel and say that...the sheer depth of his work...that aside, it is also beyond me how anyone could imply that painting, sculpting requires less thought than writing ...that any or all of the arts are less demanding, intellectually or physically, than writing. To read that on a poetry board is even more astounding to me, frankly. That's like saying Rebecca plays concert violin/cello and paints for the sheer fun of it, writes only when she's thinking, applying her intellect, being serious.

Pat

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  21:25:52

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How did I know you would bring up Rebecca? Intuition? Just because I mention the word "elitist" doesn't demean anyone's ability. Rebecca also happens to write and write very well. She's one of the rare artists who happens to have many talents, intellectually and spatially. 

I've been to the Rothko Chapel in Houston, Texas. That's where I got my first impression of his work. Shall I worship it? But here's something to consider, the full article, "The Mental Realist" is at this link: http://www.keithchandler.com/The%20Mental%20Realist%203.html

Art is a mature human activity that creates and produces objects or events intended to evoke specific and significant experiences in those expected to observe them. (Chandler 2002b: 154)

On the other hand, their extraordinarily innovative work makes perfect sense when viewed not as a stage in the history of art but as a stage in the evolvement of the human psyche, particularly in our ability to think symbolically, i.e., in secondary semantics, and to form pre-linguistic conceptual structures. I found support for this thesis in the work of psychologist Nicholas Humphrey. Humphrey's principal evidence comes from a study made in the early 1970s by Lorna Selfe of the art-work of a young autistic girl named Nadia. He notes that, 

Nadia, born in Nottingham in 1967, was severely retarded in several respects . By the age of six years she had still failed to develop any spoken language, was socially unresponsive and physically clumsy. But already in her third year she had begun to show an extraordinary drawing ability: suddenly starting to produce line-drawings of animals and people, mostly from memory, with quite uncanny photographic accuracy and graphic fluency. (Humphrey 2002: 2)

Mia 

429 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  21:54:17

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Mia, I am an artist...not a good one but a fair one. I did not make a living at it, but I did make a living in the disability field for many years and no doubt have spent far more time with savants and their families than most. 

We were speaking of artists, not savants...savants who have developmental disablities while demonstrating remarkable skill in a narrow area can, sadly, rarely use that particular skill in any productive way....the two are vastly different. 

I leave this thread to Auntie...we've taken enough of her thunder.

Pat

871 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2004 :  22:44:31

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I don't know, Pat. How do these discussions get so twisted out of shape? I'm not talking just about idiot savants, or autistic artists, I'm talking about the ability to create art from different parts of the brain. The complexity to create art is not the same as language skills. The cave man could paint long before he could form words; symbolically we could say his paintings were used to communicate. A different form of language I suppose. 

I'm a writer and an artist too, but I seriously have no illusions about becoming an accomplished elitist at anything but the enjoyment of it, and appreciation of those who do what they do well. I think that pretty much sums up my attitude toward art, writing, poetry, expression in general so to take issue with my stance/opinion of someone's work, including yours, seems to be a defensible position. I must have said something wrong that doesn't sit well with you.

Tomorrow, most likely, I will forget most of the exchanges that have transpired. I do take art seriously, and discussing its merits whether we agree or not is stimulating; but, the duel nature of some these discussions leads me to think that I'd rather write, produce art than talk about it. But seriously, I just don't get why someone always feel like they have to be right and someone has to be wrong. I don't care if someone is right or wrong, as long as they're passionate about what they believe.

Aunty, I'm handing this thread back to you. Love to have your opinion on my new poem. Maybe I'll post it, maybe I won't.

Mia

416 Posts

USA
2027 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2004 :  09:18:23

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Thanks, Isobel! My machine is so fussy.

You know, online we're always getting poems inspired by pictures, whereas on mic we always get poems inspired by musicians. Just noting.

I think pictures may be a good place for inspiration, but I'm not fond of words about either pictures or music. It just seems a step down from the original art. Not that any one art is better, or worse, or more or less elite than others, but just that I think *describing* another art is less than the original art, in general.

That said, I think this poem stands on its own, and seeing the picture merely enhances it. I think the poem goes off on its own, as it should.

I like "river bed to be known for dreaming the coming wet"

"who will till the verbal plot"

and especially " 'I'm harder than before' you say in settling."

The "frame" I think could be trimmed. I'd cut the first six words and start with: "I stand with eyes lowered"

and modify the final three words somehow. Maybe just change or eliminate "depiction."

Now, what's my grade?
 

Australia
2372 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2004 :  17:35:47

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ha! I knew you would get a pass on all the naughty bits-- 

and be unafeared to poke them with a fork-- did you get to the site and have a look-- I just know there are one or two you could get your teeth into-- with a vengance too

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2004 :  17:16:49

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Hi Guys,

A friend of mine sent me an e-mail about this thread and told me to check out what you guys said about the poem and about my work.

I sure do appreciate all of your comments, even the negative ones. I rarely have the chance to hear or read uncensored honest commentary and I will really think about some of the comments that were made. 

Some of them I do feel may be warranted. One of the things that I consistently work on is my drawing.

If any of you would like to be on my mailing list drop me a message and I'll add you!
Kmencher@ohlone.edu

All the best,
Kenney

KMencher@ohlone.edu
http://www.kenney-mencher.com/
or
http://online.ohlone.edu/art/kmencher/